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Thread: Major Bug with Outlook365 - Disappearing Emails

  1. #1

    Default Major Bug with Outlook365 - Disappearing Emails

    There is a bug in SpamSieve with O365. Every couple of days, there seems to be a sync error, and emails disappear from the inbox and gets deleted. This happens to 1 in about 500 emails or so.

    I think it's a sync error because the emails end up not in the deleted mailbox but gets really deleted. You can only get them back by going to the "recover deleted emails" interface on O365. I think it's happening when Outlook 365 is syncing.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by mememe View Post
    There is a bug in SpamSieve with O365. Every couple of days, there seems to be a sync error, and emails disappear from the inbox and gets deleted. This happens to 1 in about 500 emails or so.

    I think it's a sync error because the emails end up not in the deleted mailbox but gets really deleted.
    I’m sorry to hear that, but I don’t think it’s related to SpamSieve because SpamSieve is not involved in the sync process, it doesn’t access any messages in the inbox, and it doesn’t delete any messages.

  3. #3

    Default Same Issue

    Hi there - same issue. Have O365 with SpamSieve configured per your instructs. Running on a Mac with outlook. I also use outlook on my iPhone.

    With SpamSieve turned on, I've occasionally seen notification on my locked phone that a new message comes in on outlook.

    Go in a little later to check it in my inbox and it's missing (from internal senders who I later was confirmed was whitelisted in log). Check Spam and Deleted folders, but not there either.

    Have to go into O365 outlook via browser, go to deleted items, then go into the "recover items deleted from this folder" link (it bypasses deleted folder completely) to find the message and restore it.

    I've seen other posts where it's being said that SS doesn't delete, but something is happening in O365 with SpamSieve turned on (doesn't happen when it's off).

    Happy to provide logging, configs, or poke or prod something to help find out what's going on here. I've gotten in the habit of checking the recovered link daily.. but my executives who are/want to use SS won't put up with that.

    We've purchased a block of licenses from you and I'd hate to have to stop using them. What can we do to figure this out?

    Thanks,

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by str4t0s View Post
    Hi there - same issue.
    Do you mean that you are also getting sync errors reported by Outlook? If so, please copy/paste or screenshot them.

    Is the account POP, IMAP, or Exchange? Does the problem occur for all mail accounts or just one?

    Quote Originally Posted by str4t0s View Post
    Go in a little later to check it in my inbox and it's missing (from internal senders who I later was confirmed was whitelisted in log).
    For messages classified as good in the log, SpamSieve does one of two things:

    1. If you have the setup with the InboxSpamSieve folder, it asks Outlook to move the message from InboxSpamSieve to the inbox.
    2. If you’re not using that setup, the messages is already in the inbox, and SpamSieve will assign the “Good” category or move it to the good folder (if specified using the gGoodFolderName setting).


    Which setup are you using? If #1, you may be able to work around the problem by switching to setup #2 (deleting the InboxSpamSieve folder and disabling the associated Outlook rule). However, don’t do this if you have more than a few hundred messages in the inbox, as Outlook will slow down.

    Quote Originally Posted by str4t0s View Post
    Have to go into O365 outlook via browser, go to deleted items, then go into the "recover items deleted from this folder" link (it bypasses deleted folder completely) to find the message and restore it.

    I've seen other posts where it's being said that SS doesn't delete, but something is happening in O365 with SpamSieve turned on (doesn't happen when it's off).
    To clarify, what I mean by that is that:

    1. SpamSieve does not access the mail server directly.
    2. It only asks Outlook (via AppleScript) to move the messages to the inbox or to the Junk mailbox.
    3. It never asks Outlook to delete messages.


    It’s possible that something is going wrong in #2 and Outlook is instead deciding to delete the messages (or the server is getting confused and doing that), although aside from the other post in this thread I’ve not heard of anything like this happening.

    Another idea is that maybe another rule in Outlook or another computer/device accessing the same mail account is doing something with the message after SpamSieve moves it back to the inbox. Do you have any Outlook rules besides the SpamSieve one(s)? Any other devices besides your iPhone?

    My hunch is that the message is being moved to a local folder on a device. Mail clients implement this feature by creating a local copy of the message and the deleting the original on the server. This is the main time when the client/server will choose to immediately delete a message rather than marking it as deleted or moving it to the trash.

    Quote Originally Posted by str4t0s View Post
    Happy to provide logging, configs, or poke or prod something to help find out what's going on here.
    It would be good to narrow down the circumstances when the problem occurs and, ideally, find a way to make it happen at will. Do you see any pattern among the messages that need to be recovered? Can you reproduce the issue by sending another message of that type?

  5. #5

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    So I've tested this. When I disable Spamsieve, the problem no longer happens, so it's definitely due to Spamsieve.

    I think what's happening is when the emails get moved to InboxSpamSieve and my mac is syncing with Exchange, and at the same time my iPhone is syncing with Exchange, and my Android phone is also syncing with Exchange, some messages get lost. Exchange then thinks the messages have been deleted but doesn't see it in any of the deleted folders on any of the devices and thinks it was deleted off the deleted folder. It then ends up in neverland.

    I'll try using SS without InboxSpamSieve. Is the reason for using it on Office365 purely because it slows things down too much?

  6. #6

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    Ha, it looks like I can't use SpamSieve without SpamSieveInbox on Office365, is that right?

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mememe View Post
    I think what's happening is when the emails get moved to InboxSpamSieve and my mac is syncing with Exchange, and at the same time my iPhone is syncing with Exchange, and my Android phone is also syncing with Exchange, some messages get lost. Exchange then thinks the messages have been deleted but doesn't see it in any of the deleted folders on any of the devices and thinks it was deleted off the deleted folder. It then ends up in neverland.
    All that syncing shouldn’t matter because it’s just other devices downloading the message from the server. The only thing actually changing is that the Mac is telling Exchange to move the message from one folder to another. That should be really easy for it to keep track of. So I still think it’s worth narrowing down what’s happening, as described in the previous message. You could also try keeping the InboxSpamSieve rule enabled but not run Outlook Filter Mailboxes. That would help see whether it’s the rule or the AppleScript that’s triggering the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by mememe View Post
    I'll try using SS without InboxSpamSieve. Is the reason for using it on Office365 purely because it slows things down too much?
    You can use SpamSieve without the InboxSpamSieve folder and rule with Outlook 365. Then SpamSieve will work from the inbox and move the spam messages from there to Junk E-mail. The main reason not to do this is that if you have a lot of messages in the inbox, Outlook is very slow at processing AppleScript commands.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tsai View Post
    All that syncing shouldn’t matter because it’s just other devices downloading the message from the server. The only thing actually changing is that the Mac is telling Exchange to move the message from one folder to another. That should be really easy for it to keep track of. So I still think it’s worth narrowing down what’s happening, as described in the previous message. You could also try keeping the InboxSpamSieve rule enabled but not run Outlook Filter Mailboxes. That would help see whether it’s the rule or the AppleScript that’s triggering the problem.

    I used to know how IMAP worked, but I believe that when an email gets moved, there is a change in the ID number of the email or the mailbox. When emails get moved back and forth between inbox and InboxSpamSieve, while at the same time other devices are syncing, I think some of the IMAP numbering system gets corrupted. The email loses its ID, and gets kicked out of the inbox probably.


    You can use SpamSieve without the InboxSpamSieve folder and rule with Outlook 365. Then SpamSieve will work from the inbox and move the spam messages from there to Junk E-mail. The main reason not to do this is that if you have a lot of messages in the inbox, Outlook is very slow at processing AppleScript commands.
    Do I need to set it up like Outlook 2011? I tried that and there is no applescript. Or in the absence of InboxSpamSieve, will the filter mailbox app automatically process the emails in the inbox?

  9. #9

    Default

    I used to know how IMAP worked, but I believe that when an email gets moved, there is a change in the ID number of the email or the mailbox. When emails get moved back and forth between inbox and InboxSpamSieve, while at the same time other devices are syncing, I think some of the IMAP numbering system gets corrupted. The email loses its ID, and gets kicked out of the inbox probably.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mememe View Post
    Do I need to set it up like Outlook 2011? I tried that and there is no applescript.
    Right, you can’t do that because Microsoft removed the feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by mememe View Post
    Or in the absence of InboxSpamSieve, will the filter mailbox app automatically process the emails in the inbox?
    Yes.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tsai View Post
    Right, you can’t do that because Microsoft removed the feature.



    Yes.
    Hm, I'm trying it and it doesn't seem to filter the Inbox. It's not showing up in the logs and nothing is in the spam folder.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by mememe View Post
    Hm, I'm trying it and it doesn't seem to filter the Inbox. It's not showing up in the logs and nothing is in the spam folder.
    In order for Outlook Filter Mailboxes to filter the inbox, you can’t have any folders named InboxSpamSieve.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tsai View Post
    In order for Outlook Filter Mailboxes to filter the inbox, you can’t have any folders named InboxSpamSieve.
    It turns out even if you delete InboxSpamSieve, it goes into the trash folder, and you have to delete it permanently in order for the script to work.

    Alternatively, you can change the script to filter Inbox instead of InboxSpamBox, but if you do that, you can't have any mailboxes that start with Inbox. I had "Inbox 2012" and "Inbox 2013" etc. and the script will filter every mailbox that starts with "Inbox"

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